Is it immoral for top YouTubers to have kick starters?

[Franklin]

I never said it is wrong to start a channel with the objective to make money. But, the words used in your reply just validated my original response. You have a nice day fuming. I am going to put something on the grill.

You're a lair and being very manipulative in this topic. Your responses are totally unrelated to the discussion. Nobody in this thread is complaining about how much money a top channel is making. People are debating if it is moral or immoral for top channels to ask people to donate money to improve a channel that makes a lot of of money and more than enough money to pay for its improvements without donations.

 

[Cameron484]

It honestly depends, if they actually are making a product that will benefit the user then no. If it's something they want to do for personal gains, but don't want to personally finance it then yes.

Similarly, some wealthy individuals use kickstarter as an alternative to using their own money for the products. It's not really just top youtubers who do this type of thing.

 

[Franklin]

But then there was Smosh who had a campaign for a game two years ago and still haven't released.

I did some research on the Smosh campaign and there are many sources saying that it was scam. Smosh asked for $250,000 for an indie mobile game and many developers said it does not cost that much for an indie game. Even great indie games can be made for free with the right resources.

 

[Ryan CG]

I did some research on the Smosh campaign and there are many sources saying that it was scam. Smosh asked for $250,000 for an indie mobile game and many developers said it does not cost that much for an indie game. Even great indie games can be made for free with the right resources.

I agree that that situation would be immoral. I also say that $250k is far more than one would expect an indie mobile game to cost. Your last sentence is objectively incorrect, though; time is worth money, and merely existing costs money. A lot of kickstarted games just have a few people on the production team paying for things out of pocket. They may not be "hired" in a traditional sense, but they're setting aside other reliable money making projects for a risky game. Usually, KS game supporters are basically pre-ordering the game to show that in the very least the producers will make back the money lost and know it's a worthwhile project to begin with. On the whole, it's a pretty good system, I say.

But yeah, $250k to make a mobile game seems way too much, even including costs like advertising.

 

[WolfWraith]

I looked up this MegaCapitalG person, their estimated (not to mention likely inaccruate) earnings for the year are $3.4K - $27K. I dunno where you live that $27k per year is a lot. $27K/yr isn't even minimum wage, teachers earn more than that. Even when I was earning around $29k a year, after 2yrs I was only able to save up roughly $30-35k in total which was spent on a car.
In 1yr I'd spend:
$4,800 on board
$350 for my phone bill
Average $700 for fuel.
Average $3,400 for lunch/food
Rego $600
Insurance $1200
So in 1yr even living at home with my folks I had spent $11,000 that left me with $18,000/yr. This isn't even factoring other activies I spend money on either; as well as other items I purchased throughout the year.
Even if I was earning $100k/yr after tax I'd still not be able to afford to move out of my home for roughly 6-8yrs.
Now imagine if I had been living alone.

I don't overly see an issue with YouTubers starting kickstarters mainly because if they're doing it for the wrong reasons; I'm not the 1 dumb enough to give them money, but kickstarters are meant to be for projects not medical issues or things like that. A YouTube channel counts as a project to me and if they're not getting by and need to keep it running then they can start a kickstarter, obviously if they don't live up to what's promised they're burning themselves, I'd personally rather let me channel crumble/leave than ask for money, but those are out of my own personal morals. I do however, have a bigger issue with people that assume YouTubers fart money out their arses and can afford to do whatever they want.

 

[CoolMoo5]

But yeah, $250k to make a mobile game seems way too much, even including costs like advertising.

Especially for a game that hasn't come out yet. Does it really take two years to make a mobile game? Especially since they already had the idea planned going into it.

 

[Franklin]

I looked up this MegaCapitalG person, their estimated (not to mention likely inaccruate) earnings for the year are $3.4K - $27K. I dunno where you live that $27k per year is a lot. $27K/yr isn't even minimum wage, teachers earn more than that. Even when I was earning around $29k a year, after 2yrs I was only able to save up roughly $30-35k in total which was spent on a car.
In 1yr I'd spend:
$4,800 on board
$350 for my phone bill
Average $700 for fuel.
Average $3,400 for lunch/food
Rego $600
Insurance $1200
So in 1yr even living at home with my folks I had spent $11,000 that left me with $18,000/yr. This isn't even factoring other activies I spend money on either; as well as other items I purchased throughout the year.
Even if I was earning $100k/yr after tax I'd still not be able to afford to move out of my home for roughly 6-8yrs.
Now imagine if I had been living alone.

I don't overly see an issue with YouTubers starting kickstarters mainly because if they're doing it for the wrong reasons; I'm not the 1 dumb enough to give them money, but kickstarters are meant to be for projects not medical issues or things like that. A YouTube channel counts as a project to me and if they're not getting by and need to keep it running then they can start a kickstarter, obviously if they don't live up to what's promised they're burning themselves, I'd personally rather let me channel crumble/leave than ask for money, but those are out of my own personal morals. I do however, have a bigger issue with people that assume YouTubers fart money out their arses and can afford to do whatever they want.

$27K is decent depending on where you live and if you live alone. Please keep in mind the majority of 18+ Youtubers have jobs outside of YouTube. Most YouTubers aren't like Smosh and can live off of YouTube alone. Let's be honest the $27K is more than enough for him to purchase new equipment. My best friend has a degree in media and earns less than $25K per year. He can afford very good equipment and software without needing to start a kick starter. He has also made small film projects over the past few years as well. Don't forget that budgeting plays a huge factor.

I'm currently unemployed with a BS degree and seeking employment. I don't have money to afford the cards and decks I showcase on my channel. I didn't make a campaign for assistance. Instead I looked for other means to support my channel. I use reward programs such as Quick Rewards, Swagbucks, and most Points2Shop for my needs. Quick Rewards and Bubblews are used for my personal income. Points2Shop is used for my card gaming needs for my channel. Last year I earned $250 in Amazon gift cards from Swagbucks for my card game channel and I earned over $100 in Amazon and Paypal this year. I stopped using Swagbucks in favor of Points2Shop and Quick Rewards because I can earn more money faster with those sites. But of course my method doesn't work for everyone.

People aren't assuming every YouTuber has a load of cash. People know big guns in their niche have money especially when they make thousands per year.

 

[ChargunHD]

If they begin a kick starter for a LEGIT reason I.E a large medical bill for themselves or for a family member (some YouTubers are affected with cancer through their family and attempt to raise money) Because think about sure they earn money but they got to pay heating bills, car insurance, car tax, food to eat, electricity bills, petrol money to get from A to B, rent, and so on so despite the fact they can make a living maybe not as much as you think.

If they begin a kick starter for a new PC I don't bother and thats what really annoys me but for the majority of larger YouTubers any kick starter I see is usually for a legit reason (medical bills, charity etc.)

 

[Kath]

@Franklin please refrain from name calling, as it is not needed. We do not tolerate that here at YTtalk.[DOUBLEPOST=1408313881,1408308533][/DOUBLEPOST]

For crowd-funding to work you need a crowd. You obviously don't have one (and neither have I for that matter).

Stop acting butt hurt that people can get to money easy while you are having a hard time gaining traction. These threads are always started by the same genre of YouTubers. Those that started out YouTube because they wanted money, got reality checked, and then decide to join a forum to vent their anger only to find an ******* such as myself telling them they should stop being butthurt and just YouTube on. Everyone that is successful started YouTube with an idea they love, if it's a hobby you don't care about the income. Sure, it would be very nice to get a livable wage from YouTube, I know I could use it. But it is not the leading factor in having my YouTube account. The leading factor is... FUN! I could stay at ~120 average video views and ~360 subs forever and not bat an eye.

Please try to be more respectful when replying to members. Not everyone is 'butthurt' because they have these opinions thanks.

If any more bickering goes on in this thread, I will close it down thank you

 

[Catie WahWah]

I feel like I need to correct a misconception that seems to be going on in this thread about media. TV/Film/Video production is completely different from running a business where you're selling a product. Most television shows get made because investors (those guys credited as executive producers, networks, etc.) have a look at the pitch and say it looks good, let's put some money in that. Then the production company creates the show, and it airs, investors hopefully get some ad revenue, distribution revenue, etc. but not necessarily - it's all a gamble. Same thing happens with funding films, where most films are unprofitable (except stuff like the Avengers).

All Kickstarter does is take the power to green-light a project and give it to the actual fans of the content. So, instead of a YouTuber seeking out producers and sponsors for their more ambitious content (who may want editorial control over the content) they are able to go directly to the people who actually enjoy their stuff and say, "Hey - do you want me to make this?"

YouTubers don't sell their own ads, they have no way of building a profit margin in. They don't sell their content to YouTube to distribute, and very few charge an actual subscription fee. They have absolutely no control. If Zach Braff gets a Kickstarter then of course Hannah Hart should be able to have one.

Moreover, comparing any media business model to a franchise-based fast-food chain is, quite frankly, ridiculous.

But more so, this idea of it being "immoral" - I'm not sure philosophically how that would even work? Is the concept of investment immoral then? Which system of morality are you applying here? Christianity preaches generosity, the Greeks were pretty fond of logic and creating beautiful things... It feels weird being asked to make a spirtual, moral judgement about people we've never met via a "Yes/No" poll on the internet...