A way to gain more views? :)

[RodakTV]

Alrighty.



But we're not talking about movies, TV shows, or even music videos. The average YouTuber is a talking head.



Again, where did I say you shouldn't do so? What I did say is that you need to tell them that and not assume they possess ESP. Telling which game genre you specialize in literally takes seconds and you can and should talk over your video gaming clips. That's why people continue watching your gaming videos. Not your mad gaming skills. Then again, as I haven't spent a lot of time researching gaming channels, I could be off on this one. Please tell of successful gaming channels (million subs or more) where the YouTuber doesn't talk but just shows their awesome gameplay.



No, you're wrong in that assumption. Where have I EVER posted such "advice" on YTtalk? Seriously. Go through the archive of my posts and tell me where. What I am saying is that only focusing on making great content will NOT make you successful on YouTube. You need to ALSO market yourself. Use SEO-friendly tags, catchy titles, even more catchy thumbnails, and, most importantly of all, do collaborations with other YouTubers.



That isn't what they're saying. YouTuber1978 and ChineseIrish are saying that you ONLY need to create great content and that marketing is a WASTE of time. YouTuber1978 explicitly recommends not to do marketing. You're not saying that, "Yes, you must advertise your videos..."



YouTuber1978 claims to have a successful "monster" channel. Go to "Multiple YouTube Channels???" thread and see for yourself. He has claimed his channel is successful within this thread as well. If you claim to have a successful YouTube channel and use that to back up your position, it is totally reasonable for someone to then ask for proof that you have a successful channel. If you don't provide such proof (a mere link to your YouTube homepage) but continue to say your channel is successful and use that claim to back up the advice you continue to give out, you're a fraud until proven otherwise.



But that isn't how YouTuber1978 is saying his channel is a success. I am measuring him by his own measuring stick.



The YouTube algorithm also takes into consider how many people view your videos. If few people view your videos, having a high audience retention is nullified by your lower viewer count. Yes, when you are competing against a video with the same number of viewer counts, higher audience retention of your videos will be counted in your favor but that isn't what you should be counting on happening everytime.

And if you don't market your channel, you're hoping that YouTube algorithm will alone make your channel successful. This is literally YouTube1978's position. That is the Hollywood fantasy of "If you build it, they will come." and the engineer's fantasy of "If you build a better mousetrap, the world will beat a path to your door." In the real world, if people don't know you exist, they won't frequent you. Hoping that YouTube's algorithm will pick your videos is akin to hoping to win the lottery. As I have asked YouTube1978 and ChineseIrish, please give me the name of a SINGLE successful YouTube channel who has only focused on creating great content and has done no marketing. I don't know of a SINGLE one that has, but if you do, I'm all ears. I would love to research that channel.



And I haven't said otherwise. What I have said is that you cannot expect to be successful on YouTube without marketing.

If you go onto any large youtube who does gaming, you will see him playing the game in his trailer, or have a video dedicated to his best moments. You seem to be under the impression that people watch gaming channels purely for gameplay. This is not true. I watch gaming channels because I enjoy the youtuber's commentaries, his comedy, etc. Youtube videos is very similar medium to Tv Shows and Movies. You simply CANNOT just say you're funny and hope people watch your videos. You need to prove it in your channel trailer. You keep stating that viewers don't have ESP. That is exactly why you need to show them that you're actually funny, not just saying you are. It's a demonstration of what you offer.

Youtube penalizes channels with High view counts, but low audience retention, that is why it is a bad idea to over market your videos. And no, I have a video that is the highest video on the search, but has considerable less views than the other videos. It is because I have a very high audience retention for that video. So your idea on viewers and audience retention is wrong, sorry.

They also didn't say not to market your content, they said to MAINLY focus on creating quality content. Like Chinese said, marketing a turd is bad idea. Quality content = high audience retention = more views. You seem to believe this is the lottery. It's not hard. I've done it.

EVERYONE markets their channel, one of the reasons we are on this forum. But you are simply skipping the step on creating quality content first.

 

[Squeal Cat]

Buh, I don't get the discussion on here.

Making perfect videos without marketing won't get you far. Doing perfect marketing won't get you much further either...

There are multiple ways of growing your channel. I believe @YouTuber1978 in his logic. Making perfect videos for Youtube algorithm will give your videos a perfect Youtube ranking and it will launch the video into the suggested carousel of Youtube and granting you millions of views.

I also believe @Jack Decker in his opinion. Without marketing you do not get the kickstart your videos/channel needed to be ranked high. If you keep in the 20 ~ 30 views per video zones your video's won't be ranked at all. You need to have some loyal subscribers on your channel or some views for your video to have the potential of launching it selves.

You also have the marketing specialist who know what they are doing and optimizing the performances thanks to (online/socialmedia) marketing. And you also have the social media grinders who tries to scrape every view by being active on social media.

And there are many more options. Best is have the best of all worlds

 

[RodakTV]

Buh, I don't get the discussion on here.

Making perfect videos without marketing won't get you far. Doing perfect marketing won't get you much further either...

There are multiple ways of growing your channel. I believe @YouTuber1978 in his logic. Making perfect videos for Youtube algorithm will give your videos a perfect Youtube ranking and it will launch the video into the suggested carousel of Youtube and granting you millions of views.

I also believe @Jack Decker in his opinion. Without marketing you do not get the kickstart your videos/channel needed to be ranked high. If you keep in the 20 ~ 30 views per video zones your video's won't be ranked at all. You need to have some loyal subscribers on your channel or some views for your video to have the potential of launching it selves.

You also have the marketing specialist who know what they are doing and optimizing the performances thanks to (online/socialmedia) marketing. And you also have the social media grinders who tries to scrape every view by being active on social media.

And there are many more options. Best is have the best of all worlds

That's pretty much what I'm trying to explain. That you need both. Lol, maybe people are confused on what I'm saying.

 

[Squeal Cat]

That's pretty much what I'm trying to explain. That you need both. Lol, maybe people are confused on what I'm saying.

It's not really needed, since I know examples of getting millions of views without any marketing. And I'm a living example of getting views through "marketing" for my terrible videos.

But why not have the best of both

 

[Jack Decker]

If you go onto any large youtube who does gaming, you will see him playing the game in his trailer, or have a video dedicated to his best moments.

Did I say they didn't? What I did ask is for the name of any successful gaming YouTuber who doesn't talk during their channel trailer or has a successful gaming channel without talking to their viewers. If you know of such, please share.

You seem to be under the impression that people watch gaming channels purely for gameplay. This is not true.

Actually, I said and meant the opposite. Please quote me where I said people watch gaming channels for purely gameplay. If you look into my archive, you'll see numerous posts where I explicitly say just the opposite. The most recent thread where I said this was in the thread: "LIMITATIONS of not creating content in English - feedback wanted!", go to the second page of posts, see my post at the top of that page, and scroll down to Suggestion #9.

Youtube videos is very similar medium to Tv Shows and Movies. You simply CANNOT just say you're funny and hope people watch your videos. You need to prove it in your channel trailer. You keep stating that viewers don't have ESP. That is exactly why you need to show them that you're actually funny, not just saying you are. It's a demonstration of what you offer.

Again, where did I say you shouldn't show your best clips in your channel trailer? What am I saying (and have repeatedly said and yet you still don't seem to get) is that you need to talk to your viewers during your channel trailer. Don't assume they know what your channel is about by just showing clips. Clips can be misleading and people can interpret them very differently than what you want them to do.

Youtube penalizes channels with High view counts, but low audience retention, that is why it is a bad idea to over market your videos.

First, "over market" is a relative term. Very hard to nail down. Pretty much the only way you can find that out is through trial and error.

Second, what you're concerned about with this point is getting highly placed on the "Related Videos" column of viewers and in search results. Why do you want to be there? Because it gets you more exposure, right? [Just FYI, working to get exposure = marketing.] But if your marketing campaign gets you more viewers than appearing on the "Related Videos" column and search results, wouldn't it be wiser to do the marketing campaign? And that raises the issue of what do successful YouTubers do. They market the Hell out of their channels. Many successful YouTubers say they spend FAR more time marketing their channels than making their videos. Some as much as 95% on marketing.

And no, I have a video that is the highest video on the search, but has considerable less views than the other videos. It is because I have a very high audience retention for that video. So your idea on viewers and audience retention is wrong, sorry.

First, one example does not make a rule.

Second, I would like to check your video out. Please give the video title and what search terms it places well with.

They also didn't say not to market your content, they said to MAINLY focus on creating quality content.

No, you need to read YouTuber1978's posts. He says exactly that.

Like Chinese said, marketing a turd is bad idea. Quality content = high audience retention = more views.

It isn't an either/or situation. You can make great content AND market it. I am not the one advocating only doing of those two things. And I have never advocated making bad content. Search my archive. If I have, quote me.

EVERYONE markets their channel, one of the reasons we are on this forum. But you are simply skipping the step on creating quality content first.

No, I'm not skipping that step. Where have I EVER said that? Please quote me where I have. What I am saying and have repeatedly said is that alone will NOT make your YouTube channel successful. Both YouTuber1978 and ChineseIrish are advocating that very point. I have yet to find anything to that backs up their position. They have yet to provide a SINGLE YouTuber who has became successful through only focusing on making great content and not doing any marketing. And I still wait for such evidence.[DOUBLEPOST=1444873715,1444873506][/DOUBLEPOST]

That's pretty much what I'm trying to explain. That you need both.

And that's what I have been saying all along.

Lol, maybe people are confused on what I'm saying.

Maybe that's the case. Hell, maybe that's the case with me as well.

 

[RodakTV]

Did I say they didn't? What I did ask is for the name of any successful gaming YouTuber who doesn't talk during their channel trailer or has a successful gaming channel without talking to their viewers. If you know of such, please share.



Actually, I said and meant the opposite. Please quote me where I said people watch gaming channels for purely gameplay. If you look into my archive, you'll see numerous posts where I explicitly say just the opposite. The most recent thread where I said this was in the thread: "LIMITATIONS of not creating content in English - feedback wanted!", go to the second page of posts, see my post at the top of that page, and scroll down to Suggestion #9.



Again, where did I say you shouldn't show your best clips in your channel trailer? What am I saying (and have repeatedly said and yet you still don't seem to get) is that you need to talk to your viewers during your channel trailer. Don't assume they know what your channel is about by just showing clips. Clips can be misleading and people can interpret them very differently than what you want them to do.



First, "over market" is a relative term. Very hard to nail down. Pretty much the only way you can find that out is through trial and error.

Second, what you're concerned about with this point is getting highly placed on the "Related Videos" column of viewers and in search results. Why do you want to be there? Because it gets you more exposure, right? [Just FYI, working to get exposure = marketing.] But if your marketing campaign gets you more viewers than appearing on the "Related Videos" column and search results, wouldn't it be wiser to do the marketing campaign? And that raises the issue of what do successful YouTubers do. They market the Hell out of their channels. Many successful YouTubers say they spend FAR more time marketing their channels than making their videos. Some as much as 95% on marketing.



First, one example does not make a rule.

Second, I would like to check your video out. Please give the video title and what search terms it places well with.



No, you need to read YouTuber1978's posts. He says exactly that.



It isn't an either/or situation. You can make great content AND market it. I am not the one advocating only doing of those two things. And I have never advocated making bad content. Search my archive. If I have, quote me.



No, I'm not skipping that step. Where have I EVER said that? Please quote me where I have. What I am saying and have repeatedly said is that alone will NOT make your YouTube channel successful. Both YouTuber1978 and ChineseIrish are advocating that very point. I have yet to find anything to that backs up their position. They have yet to provide a SINGLE YouTuber who has became successful through only focusing on making great content and not doing any marketing. And I still wait for such evidence.[DOUBLEPOST=1444873715,1444873506][/DOUBLEPOST]

And that's what I have been saying all along.



Maybe that's the case. Hell, maybe that's the case with me as well.

You're missing the ENTIRE point on channel trailers. Look up pewdiepie, vanossgaming, ( the most successful gaming channels on youtube ) and you will see him playing a game, you will not see him saying he runs a funny channel. If you're showing them what you actually do, instead of saying "I make funny videos", you will do better. I really don't know how to get this point across from you because you are simply missing it everytime I repeat it. Take it from people who are ACTUALLY running a youtube channel right now, they will tell you the same thing. If I was a channel trailer where he tells me he runs a "comedy gaming channel" and does not show any type of clip of him being funny, I'm going to skip on him. That was their chance to hook me, and they completely blew it by using a boring intro.

Search up "dolphin emulator fixes", my video is at the very top, you will notice videos with up to 300k views, but mine with 28k views ranks the highest. Why, audience retention. Why did they watch my video? Because I address the issues and have the BEST video on explaining it. As for marketing, I never promoted, done anything with that video besides upload it. Never worked to get it exposed, simply uploaded it and in a few weeks time, it was the #1 video. Something to do with quality I believe.

In this forum, neither of them have said marketing is not important, they simply said quality content is far more important. And everytime they said how important creating quality content, you provide a counter argument with some hollywood analogies. After you used this analogy, you never followed up on why it's important to do both. You simply said "If you build it, they will come. Sorry. That's only a Hollywood fantasy." Which makes people believe you advocate for marketing content regardless of quality. You can't argue against their points, then say it's important to create quality content. If this was a debate match, I would have won the match by default because you agreed to their point. Judges would disqualify you. I've had this happen plenty of times in my PF Matches.

Yes, quality content and marketing are important. I've stated this many times yet you continue to argue with me.

Personally speaking, don't take it the wrong way, but this is a youtube forum, meant for youtubers. You keep talking about a supposed game show you are creating, but haven't done it. If you want to give people advice on how to run a YOUTUBE channel, please at least have a youtube channel yourself. And if you do, please link it to me. I have not been able to find a link to your channel on any of your posting.


Good day.

 

[weeeben]

Over the years, I've learned that one of the worst things that businesses do is rush something out to get something out. That road is lined with failures. Researching something and moving forward when you believe it is the right time to do so generates FAR better results. Studies have shown that 90% of entrepreneurs fail when they have spent less than 6 months on their business plans whereas 90% succeed when they spend six month or more on it.

well I must be one of the 10%, I run my own business and I did my business plan in 7 weeks and 3 years later i'm still going strong and have never looked at my business plan since.
why? because business plans are not reality, they are simply guides and there's no guarantee.

so what i'm saying is, don't be so up yourself when you have nothing to back it up, just a cheap suit.
you cannot challenge me or most people on this forum aside from hypothetically so yeah, pull your head in.
little challenge indeed.

 

[WilliamRayWalters]

Is there any way I can set up my android device (maybe tasker or ITTT) to text me when JackDecker and Youtuber1978 are in a thread together? LOL

First of all, I've read solid advice from both JackDecker and Youtuber1978 on this forum. Some of their advice I don't agree with. The reason Jack is so passionate about this is because he feels like Youtuber1978's advice will hurt people's chance of success. Conversely, Youtuber1978 feels the same way about Jack's advice.

The thing is, the members of this forum have a head on their shoulders and they can use that head to decide which advice they should take. They can also use trial and error. Youtuber1978 is not forcing anyone to not promote, and Jack isn't forcing anyone to promote. They're just saying their opinions.

Jack, for you to feel so strongly about this and be so judgmental ("fraud", e.g.) on some of these threads with Youtuber1978 you must think that he's just doing all this to troll us, no? I mean, no one would call a guy a fraud if he thought the guy truly believed what he was writing. I just can't imagine he would spend all this time purely to defraud a bunch of people on an online forum. I don't agree with his assessment that promotion will kill your chances of success (although I would say that the wrong promotion can hurt a channel) but I just don't believe that he's here trolling us. Isn't it more likely, from your standpoint, that he simply had a channel with solid content and found success without any promotion, falsely attributing that success with the lack of promotion?

And incidentally, he actually does have every right to tell us he has successful channel(s) without disclosing them, and even base his advice on the success of the supposed channels. Like I said, people here have a brain. They can decide for themselves if he is being dishonest.

I personally think both of you give solid advice at times. Try to get along, guys.[DOUBLEPOST=1444893277,1444892042][/DOUBLEPOST]

You're missing the ENTIRE point on channel trailers. Look up pewdiepie, vanossgaming, ( the most successful gaming channels on youtube ) and you will see him playing a game, you will not see him saying he runs a funny channel.

That isn't a fair comparison. Those guys have no need to tell people what they do, they're so popular that when people hit their channel and see how many views their videos have, they will check them out regardless of channel trailer.

But for the most part I do not think the channel trailer is very important anyway. Your videos are the first thing that the viewers will see, whether they arrive via search results, suggested video, or whatever promotion you are doing. They will watch the video and logically conclude that your other videos will be somewhat similar and make a decision to watch more videos based on that. I've probably watched less than 10 channel trailers ever. I made a half assed one for this channel but my other channels just have one of my videos up there.

Yes, quality content and marketing are important. I've stated this many times yet you continue to argue with me.

But is Jack saying anywhere that quality content is not important? I believe all Jack is saying is that there is more to success than simply putting out good content.

They either talk about consistently making good content Grace Helbig, Felix Kjellberg, Shane Dawson, Rhett & Link, John Green, Hank Green, etc.

That doesn't mean that all of those people started out by making good content and not telling anyone about their channels or videos though. It just means that they are emphasizing the most important thing, which, of course, is content. I am sure that there are successful Youtubers who got to where they are by not doing any promotion whatsoever, but I'm also sure that there are Youtubers who became really successful by having good content and also marketing and promoting that content. Markiplier said he worked 12 hours/day promoting his channel wherever he could, for example.

But again, some of you keep making it seem like Jack has stated that promotion is more important than content. I haven't seen him say that. As a matter of fact, I don't see any of his original points in his first post on this thread (helping the OP grow his channel) pertaining to advertising or promotion (with the possible exception of the last point about collaboration). So that clearly demonstrates that he does not think that promotion is more important than content, no?

And as you break away for your commercial break, remind your viewers that you only get paid if they watch the commercial. Crass? Yes, but honest.

Isn't this against Adsense Terms of Service? Telling someone you get paid if they don't hit the skip button (or 'if they watch the ad') is similar to telling them you get paid if they click your ads, no? If you're 100% sure it's not against TOS then fine, but otherwise that's dangerous advice.

 

[YouTuber1978]

Try to get along, guys.

I'm all for this. I have no desire to get in countless arguments. It doesn't gain anyone any good. In Jack's defense I've certainly challenged his positions in posts like this and in others. So it's understandable that he's challenged mine. There's no reason why people can't have differing view points and I agree with lots of things Jack says.

Jack I apologize for egging you on. I actually sent you a PM a few hours ago apologizing but I don't know if you've read it yet.

I do think it's possible based on some of the posts I've seen on here from people that promotions are working from them. They haven't worked for me but I can't speak for others and say that they're not working for them. Wether or not someone try's to promote to become successful or does what I've done which is focus on letting YouTube promote for me, I'm sure there are merits to both approaches.

Jack let's bury the hatchet?

 

[weeeben]

couldn't this discussion be streamed live on youtube?
it might be jack's foot in the door to youtube success.

the "let's have a crack at jack" channel?

I mean jack likes an argument, forget game shows, I kinda like arguing with him and would be a dedicated sub'.
I think this idea will be a hit, and no, I have no marketing experience at all, i'm just a natural.